Comments on: Help out families hurt by raids

By: Tabetha Bernstein-Danis

Tabetha Bernstein-Danis — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 00:09:44 +0000

Not sure how it relates, Dad, but now you’re stealing my lines!!!

By: JOE BERNSTEIN

JOE BERNSTEIN — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 21:42:47 +0000

Any house with more toilet seats than asses is a waste of space.

By: Tabetha Bernstein-Danis

Tabetha Bernstein-Danis — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 21:26:01 +0000

Just out of curiousity, jwest, what is your line of work?
I was a bilingual teacher and later the ELL specialist for all the middle schools in Providence for 8.5 years before leaving to work on my doctorate in Pittsburgh and my father was an INS agent for 20 years, so I think we both have a sense of the immigration issue, albeit from two very different sides of the coin. While obviously a humanitarian situation must be arrived upon, we also need to have some accounting for who is in this country. Without any system to keep track of who is entering, who is eligible to stay, etc., how do we distinguish Marco Riz from a struggling single parent just trying to make a living? Don’t you think that some system must be in place?

By: JOE BERNSTEIN

JOE BERNSTEIN — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 21:24:22 +0000

I actually worked on a serious and wide ranging immigration fraud investigation in Chicago in 1982-83.It involved a substantial number of illegal aliens using fraudulent documents to obtain voter registration cards and vote.Illinois required proof of citizenship to register,hence the need for false documents.In RI there is no proof of citizenship needed to vote,so I am not making unfounded accusations.I certainly did make serious accusations against the behavior of reps.Segal and Diaz.What they did wasn’t illegal,but it seemed to be supportive of lawbreaking.
You’re all wet thinking I’m a xenophobe-I’ve never had a problem getting along with people from anywhere-if anything my job as an INS agent made being a xenophobe kind of impossible-that’s who I dealt with.I never had a complaint lodged against me for misconduct,integrity problems,or discrimination in 21 years.I locked up anybody-didn’t matter to me who they were.
As far as ad hominem attacks,you brought it on,pal.I don’t have a dainty vocabulary.I spent my whole adult life until I was 50 in the military and law enforcement,so “asswipe” is a pretty mild epithet in my experience. Pat Crowley referred to my attitude as “criminal’-that’s ok,huh?Ad hominem attacks are the norm for Crowley,Jerzyk,&co.They aren’t too bad in person,nor is David Segal,but they have their heads screwed on wrong as far as I am concerned.Yes,I listen to talk radio,what a surprise!And I call in also.It is the alternative media for people like me who don’t know the difference between Facebook,My Space,and lime jello.
As far as not knowing the level of illegal aliens in the country-who does.I have never had a good idea and I doubt anyone else can be very accurate.I know that aliens,both legal and illegal control the majority of drug traffic in this area except for meth and diverted drugs.i only spent 9 years assigned to narcotics.What is your experiential background in immigration?I would really be interested to know,since you like to lecture me.

By: jwest

jwest — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 17:14:38 +0000

Tabetha: I see no way to interpret anything I wrote as conflating Latino with illegal. It is a fact that immigration laws are currently used to target Hispanics. Actually, I seem to be the only person in this conversation that has a realistic idea of the level of undocumented immigrants in this country. Illegal immigration is simply not that important. It’s a wedge issue that being used by demagogues to get people worked up. The only thing that been accomplished is that INS gets to have some flashy front page headlines and families get ripped apart when parents are deported. As for your father, no I don’t know him. All I know about him is what I infer from his unhinged ranting. If you’ll bother to re-read what I wrote, you’ll see that I am not calling your father a racist, I’m saying that our current immigration laws are racist. Your father had previously used the excuse that these laws are valid because they’re the law. I’m saying that not all laws are good just because they’re laws.

JOE: You specialize in ad hominem attacks and making assumptions about people and you have the gall to accuse everyone else of the same? Nice. You must listen to a lot of conservative talk radio to pick up that tactic so effectively.

I admit I called you a xenophobe. The more you write on this issue, the more you reinforce that impression. I also said you were dense because you don’t seem to be able to connect the dots and associate cause with effect. But ‘asswipe’? That’s really raising the level of the conversation. Thanks for that. Then again, you did start this thread by making some pretty serious accusations at Rep. Segal and Rep. Diaz and then making a wild, unfounded assertion of voter fraud, so the conversation was already at a low level.

Yes, JOE, every country has immigration laws. You seem to think that that fact means that the US has good immigration laws. Do you see the distinction there?

By: Tabetha Bernstein-Danis

Tabetha Bernstein-Danis — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 19:26:07 +0000

One more point, jwest. You struck on one of my pet peeves by conflating Latino and illegal immigrant. Many Latinos (myself included) take great offense to this. While I agree that a solution which is both humanitarian AND protects national security must be reached concerning undocumented immigrants, calling the race card is not productive and offensive. I suggest you check out the website for a group called “You Don’t Speak for Me”. (http://dontspeakforme.org/) This is an organization of Latino citizens and legal immigrants who want to enforce current immigration laws. Do you suggest that this organization is a racist organization? It is a Latino organization. Ergo, your reasoning fails here. Perhaps you consider them self-haters but I doubt that members of this organization would agree. Stop conflating “illegal” and “Latino”. Neither are all illegal immigrants Latino nor are all (or even most) Latinos illegal immigrants. That attitude only fuels the truly racist element out there which seeks to condemn all people of Latino/Hispanic ancestry as people who shouldn’t be in this country. As a Latina, that is MY greatest concern. Use better judgement when writing future posts, jwest.

By: JOE BERNSTEIN

JOE BERNSTEIN — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 19:23:03 +0000

jwest-Steven Brown is the Executive Director of the RI ACLU.He is cut from the same mold you are-he makes baseless accusations-I am surprised you two aren’t acquainted.It was nice of my daughter to give you some information.This isn’t the first time you’ve gone off on me over this issue.John Brown was a slave trader-the commie-ridden college is named after him.There was an abolitionist anmed John Brown who died trying to free slaves.It seems to be a common name.
Segregation laws were aimed at a particular race and were unconstitutional.
Immigration laws are part of every nation’s legal code.You call me dense.I think you are pretty ignorant.I would probably rather live next door to some illegal aliens(I likely did in Chicago)than an asswipe like you.

By: Tabetha Bernstein-Danis

Tabetha Bernstein-Danis — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 19:01:28 +0000

jwest:
Before you go around accusing people of racism, a strong accusation, know something about the person. I am Joe Bernstein’s daughter and I am half Latina. My mother is of Puerto Rican and Honduran descent and my parents have been married for 37 (almost 38) years now. Further, my niece (Joe’s granddaughter) is also half African-American. We have the most ethnically and racially diverse family out of just about everyone I know. So, no, my father would not have supported Jim Crow or anti-miscegenation laws. Learn before you talk.

By: jwest

jwest — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 17:27:28 +0000

Wow, JOE, you are really dense. If it were easier to immigrate to the US, there would be no need for smugglers.

Just because these laws are on the books, it doesn’t mean they’re good laws. I’m sure you would have supported the Jim Crow laws, the anti-miscegenation laws, and every other baldly racist law. I mean, they were laws right? Next, I’m sure you’ll argue that when the immigration laws were conceived aren’t racist because they didn’t target Hispanics. That’s true enough, they targeted the Irish, the Germans, the Italians, etc.

One more thing, from an economic standpoint the US needs lots of immigration. Given our current birthrate, there’s no way that current levels of productivity can be maintained and absolutely no way to continue to provide basic government services like government employee pensions and social security.

Who is Steven Brown? Do you mean John Brown? If so, kudos on taking the bold step of comparing yourself favorably to a slave trader.

One thing you said is definitely true: you are no humanitarian.

By: JOE BERNSTEIN

JOE BERNSTEIN — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 14:16:27 +0000

Pat-I have one more thing to say to you.I know you’re all excited to be attending the Open Table of Christ and basking in the feeling of your humanitarianism,so let me share an experience with you.
In 1983 we arrested three smugglers and five smuggled aliens after a car chase in Chicago. It was a small case,not worthy of two lines in the paper.Two of the smugglers were adults and one was a juvenile gang member.Two of the smuggled aliens were adults and three were teenage males in the 14-16 age range.I couldn’t put the juvenile smuglees in the city juvenile facility because the gang member was being detained there and it was likely they would be in danger from him and his cohorts.I had no place to put these three kids who were filthy,hungry,and scared from four days on the road crammed into a vehicle.Their families were in Wisconsin and couldn’t be immediately contacted.
So I took them home where my wife made them supper,let them use the shower and bathroom ,and found them some clean clothes and jackets from our “old stuff” stored in the garage.My wife is a lifetime Spanish speaker and I am fluent,so the was no communication gap.My wife then made them sandwiches for overnight and I took them to INS headquarters and babysat them until the day shift came in.They were able to use the adult holding area because it was empty.The next day the adult smuglees were able to contact the kids’ families in Wisconsin and they came down and got them.They made good witnesses against the smugglers,one of whom was a parole violator stemming from a prior robbery and shootout with Chicago PD.
When you throw out comments about people without knowing shit about what their experiences might have been you show yourself as a fool.
I just wonder if Steven Brown would have done the same thing?Or you?I don’t know if it ever came up where you faced that type of situation.
Am I some big time humantarian?Hardly.I was responsible for the custody and wellbeing of those kids and I couldn’t just throw them in a detention room in the condition they were in because I took my oath as a federal agent seriously.
The people arrested by ICE are allowed calls and the opportunity to contact lawyers.If they aren’t facing criminal charges they are not provided an attorney at government expense.Contacting non-attorney “advocates” is not a right.

By: JOE BERNSTEIN

JOE BERNSTEIN — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 02:58:36 +0000

Hey “Other JB”-if you’re going to hijack my name at least spell it correctly.
Pat-let me get this straight-you are saying it’s criminal for me to call out Segal on what I consider poor judgement on his part to support lawbreakers with a lot of fanfare?If you or Jerzyk wrote that piece I wouldn’t have commented,because neither of you are public officials who are sworn to uphold current laws.Nor am I any longer.I hardly think I’m an arbiter of anything.What I write is my opinion,like yours,but I’ve never suggested you were involved in criminal behavior.Maybe you ought to look at yourself before you accuse people of being intolerant.I don’t necessarily think people who disagree with me are enemies-some may be for specific reasons.It seems to me that you think of me as an enemy.Your prerogative,but all I think of you is that you are an intelligent and energetic guy who is way off the deep end politically. I knew a lot of people like you in the Sixties-I could never understand them then or now.

By: Pat Crowley

Pat Crowley — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 22:45:39 +0000

Segal is a hero. I think he IS upholding the constitution, and the Declaration of Independence, by suggesting what he did. What is criminal is the Joe Bernstein’s of the world thinking that they are the arbiters of truth and justice… and if you disagree you are the enemy.

By: Jim Rizzo

Jim Rizzo — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 22:07:21 +0000

While I feel for the families, there is no doubt in my mind that the people who are here illegally have broken the law and need to be dealt with. It’s absolutely sickening that they come here, live off the system, have babies in the US to make them American citizens and then we end up in the position we’re in. While there’s no easy answer, we can’t just let it slide because of their families. There’s a ton of actual legitimate hard working American citizens here who are having just as hard a time getting by, yet their tax dollars are going towards the ILLEGAL immigrants. What do you say to those people? Continue to pay for the illegal immigrants? There are legal means to come into this country. If it’s that important to be here, go through the proper means. If you work the system and get caught, you should pay the price (which, unfortunately, is deportation). Unfortunately, their families end up paying the price as well, but that’s just an unfortunate side effect of someone breaking the law.

By: THE OTHER JOE BERSTEIN

THE OTHER JOE BERSTEIN — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 18:30:42 +0000

David,

It is no small jump that you are clearly violating your oath for upholding the constitution by asking for donations of money for rent, bills, sustenance, medicine, food, Pampers, toilet paper, and basic household supplies for the families of the people arrested in the raid.

Shame on you for helping to provide the basic necessities of life, especially to these criminal’s children. Instead of Pampers, we should only provide them with garbage bags so they can collect their feces until they are safely outside our borders.

By: JOE BERNSTEIN

JOE BERNSTEIN — Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:04:19 +0000

David-The above comment is not meant as a joke.Paying one’s way back is a means to avoid formal deportation which effectively prevents legal immigration in the future.
As a state legislator you took an oath to uphold the constitutions and laws of RI and the United States-maybe it meant nothing to you,I don’t know-but in the position you hold,you can’t pick and choose what laws you will respect.
Responsibility accompanies the title.Grace Diaz is doing the same thing.Do you feel that you represent people who aren’t supposed to be here?And who shouldn’t be voting?(But do)