20 Comments on “ Jamie Lynn Spears, meet Bristol Palin ”

1. 

   September 1st, 2008 at 4:25PM
   ethan Says:

   Yes, let’s not rag on them for this, except when we do. Like in this post and the one above it.

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2. 

   September 1st, 2008 at 4:52PM
   joe bernstein Says:

   Obama’s mom had him at 18 didn’t she?Did it matter?No.Nor does this.

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3. 

   September 1st, 2008 at 5:08PM
   Ted Says:

   This is a plus. As Mark Steyn points out in his recent best seller, America Alone, if our western civilization is demographically to survive in the increasingly “hostile to the west” islamic world — and not end up like the sinking European populations — these are the precise people (the Bristol Palins’) we should thank for increasing their progeny.

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4. 

   September 1st, 2008 at 8:30PM
   Ari Savitzky Says:

   @Ethan and Joe: This isn’t legitimate political news, to be sure, and should have no bearing on our opinions of Sarah Palin’s readiness (or, in fact, utter unreadiness) to be President. It is, however, going to be nonstop cablenews fodder for a couple days.

   Further, I’d hold to the central point: there’s no reason to actually fault or judge Bristol or Sarah or any of the Palins, who this “news” evidences, for better or worse, are actual, real people, god bless’m, BUT rather that we should again consider whether John McCain is too crazy, too much an irrational gambler to be President.

   Consider, for example, LBJ’s ad with the little girl and the mushroom cloud, created to portray Goldwater as a nutbag whose finger you wouldn’t want anywhere near the button.

   Point being, the sensible thing would have been NOT to nominate this person as your VP. Yet McCain did it. Even if it doesn’t bite him in the ass directly (and it already is, see supra) it is strong evidence that he would be willing to gamble America’s future down the (series of) tubes like the well-heeled, impulsive, devil-may-care fatcat that he is.

   @Ted: I cannot tell if you are serious.

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5. 

   September 1st, 2008 at 9:45PM
   Jessica Ramsey Says:

   Ted - increasing the progeny? Sounds creepy. Sounds kinda like…oh nevermind, I know how conservatives hate Nazi references.

   Anyway, the reason that this is a scandal is not because pregnant 17-year-olds are particularly scandalous, it’s because it points out how little McCain actually thought through the VP selection. Anyone running for prez these days has to be squeeky clean. If McCain had met Palin more than two times, he might have noticed this little issue.

   And yes, when McCain offered Palin the job, it was the SECOND time he’d met her. How’s that for soul mates?

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6. 

   September 2nd, 2008 at 12:00AM
   ethan Says:

   Ari: Point being, the sensible thing would have been NOT to nominate this person as your VP.

   True, but not because her daughter’s knocked up. That’s only a liability because of media coverage like–oh, say, for example–THIS POST. Your reasoning–the whole “I don’t care, but other people will, so it matters” thing–is similar to “I don’t care that Obama’s black, but other people will, so I won’t vote for him” (or similar reasoning about Clinton’s being a woman). It reeks of phony “I hate to tell you this” sentiment.

   Can you look me straight in the eye…er…keyboard and tell me that, were Biden in the same situation, you would not be outraged at the media coverage of it?

   I’m no fan of Palin’s (nor of McCain’s, Biden’s, or Obama’s), but this is just silliness.

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7. 

   September 2nd, 2008 at 12:01AM
   ethan Says:

   Crap, I messed up the html. Sorry!

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8. 

   September 2nd, 2008 at 12:20AM
   Ari Savitzky Says:

   @ Ethan: Oh come on.

   Your reasoning fails in that while there may be some analogy between this and saying that some people will care that Obama is black, I am NOT saying that I will/am not support/ing Palin because her daughter has a bun in the oven.

   Seriously, this should not matter one iota in terms of people’s decision making. It is, nonetheless, titillating, and thus newsworthy because infotainment and cheap thrills are king.

   At any rate, my main point was not even that anyone will or won’t support Palin because of her daughter’s uterine occupancy. Rather, it is that this kind of thing is the reason you vet candidates before you make them your VP, and thus McCain appears ill-equipped to be President, either because he can’t vet for shit, or because he knew about this and then decided to gamble his candidacy on it, with the latter decision redounding negatively on him insofar as it is one more example of his leadership style, which is to roll the dice and see what happens rather than plan strategically.

   And, if Biden’s son, the AG of Delaware were pregnant, I’d be going bonkers, nevermind CNN. Seriously though, it is plain unreasonable to expect the cable media to back off a story like this without a couple days of fanfare. The effects of Jaime Lynn Spears’ pregnancy are still being felt… I wish it were a better world, but a) it’s not, at least not currently, and b) THIS POST is not CNN. This is a blog. We put up silly and snarky things here too. To paraphrase Jon Stewart’s incomparable Crossfire appearance, we make poopjokes here.

   Scatalogical humor notwithstanding tho, this post was more substantive than the coverage on most cable news, but that’s a separate matter…

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9. 

   September 2nd, 2008 at 1:06AM
   geisha2go Says:

   hello, my apologies for intruding upon the conversation, but i am bored at work. also, i know precious few people this side of the pacific who are particularly interested in talking us politics - and that says more about the quality of the company i keep than anything else, but anyway, it’s killing me. from here it looks like regardless of whether the story itself is of any newsworthy or noteworthy substance, palin HAD to know this would become a major issue. In which case wouldn’t she have given them notice of the matter so they could pre-empt or prepare some sort of strategy around the disclosure - which apparently they didn’t/haven’t (unless there is some sort of uber-diabolical, more complex than the strategies of bobby fischer angle to their strategery)? the entire matter stinks of stupid all the way around. certainly this doesn’t befit the crew we wish to have running the country the next four years?

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10. 

    September 2nd, 2008 at 8:31AM
    ethan Says:

    it is plain unreasonable to expect the cable media to back off a story like this without a couple days of fanfare.

    It is not unreasonable–unrealistic, definitely, but not unreasonable. It’s also not unreasonable to expect independent news sources that claim to be progressive to behave better. It seems like you’re basically saying “other people will misbehave, so it doesn’t matter what I do.”

    Honestly, I don’t give two shits about Sarah Palin or her daughter. But gossipy anti-feminist rhetoric is gossipy anti-feminist rhetoric, no matter who it comes from, and no matter who it’s directed at.

    (In a way I’m sorry I commented on this post, because Beth’s, above it, is even more disgusting to me, but this was the more substantial one, and the one I read second, so it’s the one that got my attention.)

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11. 

    September 2nd, 2008 at 9:38AM
    joe bernstein Says:

    What interests me most about Palin is that she and Obama have comparable political experience-2 years as Governor versus 4 years as Senator,half of which were impacted by planning/executing presidential campaign;similar ages;8 years in third rate state legislature(I lived there- I know) versus 13 years in local government(admittedly small scale,but the principles are the same as larger lolocales)-so where is the difference?Name Recognition-the media have made sure the whole world knows who Obama is.Palin is relatively unknown.This is more about perception than substance,but perception is reality in this over-wired(or wireless)world.
    Obama picked Biden because he needs a mentor.McCain doesn’t-he can pick someone who can learn from him and from proximity to the Presidency.
    This whole emphasis on McCain’s age is ghoulish,considering how many people of his age and older are pretty sharp cookies and serving in all walks of public life.Some years ago I was seen by an 80 year old surgeon for a second opinion and he was head and shoulders above the fifty-something doctor who initially saw me.

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12. 

    September 2nd, 2008 at 2:53PM
    Ari Savitzky Says:

    @ Geisha: Yup. McCain is a dumbass.

    @ Ethan: a) since the dawn of human civilization, human beings have been titillated by sex. It is both unrealistic and unreasonable.

    More broadly though, I’m having trouble understanding your point: was I (seriously) using antifeminist rhetoric here? Are you saying that a blog such as this one should refrain from commenting on this story?

    Again, if you believe that commenting on this story alone constitutes misbehavior, then I guess you’ve got me. But I’d argue that that’s a broad, silly definition. This is a substantive post about an issue that is titillating. Be mad at the New York Times, which ran like eight cover stories on this. Don’t be mad that a snarky blog talked about it, especially given that (again) my main point is not judging the Palins but rather noting how much of a drunken gambler McCain is, a point evidenced by the severe lack of vetting that went into this pick.

    @Joe Whatever your thoughts on the State legislature of Illinois, it is an ass-ton more consequential in its policy decisions, which affect millions and millions of people, than being the mayor of a town of 5,000 in bumblefuck Alaska. By that same token, being governor of Alaska for two years, while bestowing some executive experience in a tiny far flung state is nowhere near being a US Senator for 4 years. The US Senate is a body which makes NATIONAL policy. The Alaska Governor is a local potentate whose policies mostly concern Salmon and regulating the Aurora Borealis. Seriously, no comparison. Obama has experience with statewide issues in a major state with both urban and rural issues, as well as experience with NATIONAL policy issues. Palin has a little bit of statewide experience in perhaps the most UNrepresentative state of the union, and a bunch of years as basically the mayor of Pascoag with snow.

    So, I would say that their level of experience is substantially different.

    Now, your 80 year old surgeon notwithstanding, age is not the biggest issue re: McCain and his choice of Palin.

    Bottom line: Either he knew about Bristols baby, and the pro-alaska secession party ties, and the corruption investigations, and he chose Palin anyway, OR he just chose her without vetting. Either way, the point is that McCain is a compulsive gambler who lacks the judgment to be president.

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13. 

    September 2nd, 2008 at 4:22PM
    gbag Says:

    Did you see the news that Obama’s daughters were in a threeway with some guy from Dateline NBC?

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14. 

    September 2nd, 2008 at 5:26PM
    ethan Says:

    my main point is not judging the Palins

    Your main point is comparing Bristol Palin to Jamie Lynne Spears and Sarah Palin to Lynne Spears, judging by the title of this post and your reason #1 “why this is significant”. And no, I don’t object to your mentioning the story, but to my mind the only responsible way to talk about it is to say “too bad we don’t have a media climate where this is considered irrelevant, let’s get back to things that matter”, not making rude jokes about the Spearses, like you did, or horrifyingly condescending, snobbish jokes about “the elite” like Beth Comery did, both implying that only people you consider trash have this problem, going for the remarkably awful classist/misogynist double play.

    since the dawn of human civilization, human beings have been titillated by sex. It is both unrealistic and unreasonable.

    Since the dawn of civilization human beings have been slaughtering other human beings for personal gain. It’s possible that it’s unrealistic of me to want this to stop, but is it unreasonable? Also: take a look at continental Europe, where politicians quite simply don’t have sex scandals (an exception, possibly, being Sarkozy’s marriage to Carla Bruni, but even that was a scandal only because he was behaving like a celebrity, not a politician, and it affected his governing). Unless you’re actually suggesting that Europeans have a different human nature than Americans, I don’t think human nature is what you think it is.

    Regardless, the media focus on inane stories like this not because human nature demands it, but because human nature allows it. They’re taking advantage of how easily distracted we are to avoid covering anything of substance, for the benefit of the corporations that own them. If it is unreasonable of me to expect different behavior from an independent blog, I fail to see why. I’m not saying you should never be snarky, nor am I saying you should never be trivial. I just think that your coverage of this particular story falls into some very unsavory narratives, and that you should pay better attention to what it is that you’re saying.

    I am glad to see that you’ve written a new post mentioning the fact that she fired a librarian for not banning books, which is far more disturbing than the fact that her daughter has a uterus and a sex drive.

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15. 

    September 2nd, 2008 at 5:27PM
    ethan Says:

    OK, I swear I didn’t mess up the html that time. I should really just start using quotation marks.

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16. 

    September 2nd, 2008 at 6:49PM
    Ari Savitzky Says:

    Don’t judge a post by it’s title.

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17. 

    September 2nd, 2008 at 7:48PM
    joe bernstein Says:

    Ari-Obama had a rather mediocre record in the Illinois legislature and can you enlighten me as to what legislation he has introduced as a US Senator?
    I know you support him very strongly,so I don’t expect to change your mind,but this mantra about”change’is belied by his choice of a career legislator who merely has to walk across the street to take up residence in Blair House as VP.
    Palin brings a point of view from a different strata of society than any of the other candidates.Obama and his wife,both Harvard Law graduates are not typical Americans.Nor is McCain and Biden may have started out in modest circumstances,but 36 years inside the Beltway has a way of working changes on people.
    Lieberman,the armchair warmonger who would never send his children in harm’s way,nor go himself,would have been a disgraceful choice;Romney would have run into problems about his religion(a shame,but true);Giuliani is compromised beyond words,Thompson is ill and colorless;Ridge would’ve alienated the conservative base….etc,etc.I thought Eric Cantor of Virginia would have been a good choice-he’s a Congressman from Richmond-but McCain made an unconventional choice.It’s funny you “progressives”give a lot of lip service to”ordinary people”but you just don’t seem to trust them with power.You swoon over intellectual elitists and personality cult politics.
    Politicians whose main talent is igniting crowds have often been destructive when given access to power.I notice the shrill denunciation of anyone who raises a question about Obama.He puts his pants on one leg at a time like anyone else.I may vote for McCain,but I sure don’t see him with rose colored glasses.
    I’ll say one more thing-anyone who feels obligated to vote for Obama as a refutation of racism is a fool.He is one man and he represents himself and his own ambitions like any other politician.
    Occasionally there are different type political leaders who aren’t all about themselves-Vaclav Havel,Nelson Mandela,Gandhi,George Washington and some others,but not that many.It is a job which demands an overwhelming ego in most cases.

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18. 

    September 2nd, 2008 at 10:39PM
    Ari Savitzky Says:

    @ Ethan: Also, again, the Palin selection goes to a very very real issue: McCain’s judgment. THAT is the point of substance here. All snark notwithstanding, McCain does not have the judgment to be president, and his choice of Palin, apparently sans vetting just illustrates how much of a reckless, drunken gambler he is. That is a VERY REAL POINT, and it has nothing to do with Bristol palin’s uterus beyond the fact that, given the world in whcih we live, the fact that her uterus has a baby in it should have given the McCain camp some pause.

    So yes, I compared Jaime Lynn Spears and Bristol Palin. It’s not an outlandish comparison: both are examples of high profile teen pregnancy, a topic I’ve covered on this blog on other occasions.

    At any rate, YES, of course, we would all love for their to be a substantive campaign on the issues, and more generally for the media to use OUR PUBLIC AIRWAVES to actually demand one. But I’m having trouble understanding, Ethan, what is soooo bad about my post. The whole point of writing for a blog is that I don’t have to shy away from the unsavory narratives, though I usually come at them from a satirical perspective. Maybe you’re reading into this a bit too much?

    @ Joe: a) Obama sponsored a ton of succesful bills in IL, including Welfare to Work, a moratorium on the death penalty, taping interrogations in murder investigations, and health care reform that dramatically expanded coverage for children. b) in the Senate, he cosponsored the wounded warriors act, nuclear non-proliferation legislation with Richard Lugar, the biggest ethics reform bill since watergate (AND THOSE ALL PASSED) not to mention many many other bills. Actually, the first bill he sponsored when he got to congress was a bill expanding Pell grants.

    I don’t view Obama as infallible, but he is extremely smart, knows national policy, and will be a great president. Plus, he has the judgement to lead, somethign McCain the drunken gambler lacks.

    Not going to acknowledge your “you liberals are all about personality cults” baloney, Joe. You’re too smart to generalize so rediculously.

    A couple other points though. a) Sarah Palin represents crazy people from Alaska. She is not ready to be president, at all. She was not a smart pick. She and her husband own almost 30 vehicles, including about 20 Snowmobiles. They are not your typical Americans.

    Let me end though by paraphrasing Jon Stewart: I want a President who is vastly superior to me. Ok, not superior, but the point is, this is the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. They should be extremely well educated, brilliant, ambitious, hard working, cultured, diplomatic, refined, strategic, frugal, wise etc etc etc. We are not electing Joe Blow: We SHOULD be choosing the best of us.

    Now, is it a wise political strategy to campaign as “Hey I’m better than you?” No. And no one does it, and I know in Obama’s case he doesn’t think it either. Obama, dafka, actually came from meager circumstances and pulled himself up with brains and hard work and drive.

    All I’m saying, though, is its ridiculous to think that we are actually trying to elect someone who is an average American. We want a simulacrum or a veneer of averageness, but we also demand that our presidents be well above average in other respects - the heroism, or their intelligence, or their looks or intelligence, or their wealth or ambition, or their piety. And we should, because if we want to be a great country, we need to elect great leaders. So, in short, cut the crap.

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19. 

    September 3rd, 2008 at 6:31AM
    joe bernstein Says:

    Well,I don’t think getting rid of the death penalty was a very good idea.And sponsoring legislation is not the same as writing it-don’t try to equate the two.I am pro-life and I will never vote for any politician who wants to eliminate semi-automatic firearms.
    If I were to look for a person to represent the best of us,I wouldn’t pick Obama.I have supported McCain since 2000 and I’m not a Johnny-come-lately to his candidacy because someone else didn’t make it.
    I cannot imagine what kind of Ginsburg-esque judges obama would appoint to the Supreme Court.The dope currently in the White House made two good appointments,and he almost gave us a dud on the second one.It was the only good thing he did.
    The best candidate I can recall in the last 20 years was Bob Dole-he rose from really meager circumstances(not a posh school in Hawaii),he seved bravely in WW2 and what really impressed me was that he left the Senate so his constituents would have effective representation while he campaigned.And the American people elected a serial liar instead. None of the others,including McCain have done that.McCain had a Democartic governor to think about,but Obama had his friend,Blagojevitch in Illinois who could have appointed another liberal.Obama has not really put in serious time in the Senate for almost two years.
    We’ll see on election day in any event -I think an Obama presidency will permanently divide this country-we are already going there anyway-socialism vs.individual freedom.

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20. 

    September 3rd, 2008 at 7:05AM
    joe bernstein Says:

    I know you can’t understand this because it was so long before you were born-but anyone who woks with Bill Ayers on anything is not worth voting for-Ayers should have been executed for setting off bombs against his own country-I cannot explain that period to you,but the hard feelings have not gone away and never will.

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